Morglum
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Post by Morglum on Aug 19, 2008 9:25:03 GMT -5
Hi, I'm thinking of starting an orcs and gobbos army, as i feel i have collected to many elite armies in my time (grey knight, warriors of chaos, chaos marines and luna wolves) so i thought it was about time to get a horde army, and whats better then orcs and gobbos for that? I don't have the codex at the moment, but im hopefully getting it on saturday, at the moment i have 40 night gobbo spearmen, 20 night gobbo archer, 10 gobbo spider riders, a troll, a night gobbo shaman and a night gobbo boss (basically everything from the battle for skull pass box ) which i work out to be around 700 pts (although this may be inaccurate, as i had to use the points costs from battle reports ). I was thinking of getting a black orc big boss (will be used as a normal boss until i get to 2000 points) adn a squad of black orks. If anybody can give me some pointers, i'd greatly appreciate it. Ty in advance, Mamba Oh yeah, and im trying to keep the cost of this project down fairly low, so there won't be any forge world or classic miniatures going into it.
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 19, 2008 10:07:39 GMT -5
Hey Mamba, welcome to the frustrating but often very fun world of Orcs and Gobbos.
Do you have any particular theme in mind? Do you want it to be a powerful list?
The Black Orc Big Boss is a good start, use him as that though, not a normal boss.
Buy a unit of Orc Boys to go with him, give them Shields and Choppas. This gives you good static res and some punch from the Big Boss and him beinga black orc stops Animosity.
Grab a Gobbo Wolf Chariot for some speed and something that can deal with ASF enemies.
Then buy the box of 3 Fanatics.
If you then put your spears into 1 unit [convert the spears to hand weapons though or just use them as hand weapons]. Give them full command and 2 Fanatics. Throw the Night Gob Big Boss in there.
Then the 20 Bows with just a Musician and 1 Fanatic.
Then the boys with Black Orc. 8 Spider Riders with Musician. The Wolf Chariot with Extra Crew, Gobbo Shaman with Itty Ring and Staff of Sorcery.
That should give you a nice 1000 point force.
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Morglum
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Post by Morglum on Aug 19, 2008 10:27:26 GMT -5
I'd like a truly massive core for the army, but powerful specials, rares,heroes and lords, if that is possible. I thought that black orc big bosses were lord choices, shows how much i know . Ty for the help, i might be able to go to GW this week end, so ill probably buy the black orc warboss and the paints i need, might get some pics up on monday.
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Morglum
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Post by Morglum on Aug 24, 2008 14:58:00 GMT -5
I'm probably not going to get the black orc warboss untill nearer the end of the hols, but i have divised a list that i think will work pretty well, sadly though, i don't hgave the codex, so i had to use battle reports to get a rough idea of the cost.
Black orc warboss 254 pts heavy armour shield ironclaws waaagh! cleava
Orc big boss 122 pts light armour army battle standard gorks waaagh! banner
orc big boss 115 pts light armour shield boar ulag's akrit axe
37 night goblins ~200pts full command 2 fanatics hand weps shield
40 night goblin archers ~ 140pts with full command
10 night goblin riders 160 pts full command
10 night goblin riders 160pts full command
20 orc big 'uns ~220 pts full command
18 orc boyz ~180 choppas shields full command
boar chariot 80 pts
20 black orcs 343 pts shields full command noggs banner of butchery
spear chukka 35 pts
~2000pts
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Post by Deraj on Aug 24, 2008 23:17:15 GMT -5
First I would split the unit of 57 gobbos into units of like... 27 and 30. I would also not use so many big unz, personally, I find 20 to be a good maximum.
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Morglum
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Post by Morglum on Aug 25, 2008 3:26:26 GMT -5
ok, ive modified it, there are now 37 gobbos with hand weps and shields, and 40 with bows, reason for this was that a squad of 20 yesterday took out a dwarf cannon, 4 warriors and a dwarf lord. I've split the big 'uns in half, so its 20 big 'uns and 18 orc boyz. What do you think about getting grimgor in stead of the black orc warboss? good choice, or go back to drinking fungus brew ?
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 25, 2008 20:52:48 GMT -5
Here is how I would change that list, its a decent start but I think it can be improved;
Black Orc Warboss; Best Basha, Heavy Armour, Shield, Best Boss 'At, Armour of Gork.
You could just keep with the Cleava if you want, it is still a nice weapon but this way your Lord is harder to kill although not quite as powerful. Offensivly.
Black Orc Battle Standard; Heavy Armour, Boar.
He NEEDS the protection as he will be a target. Its up to you on the banner, personally if you keep with the Cleave on your Warboss I would give this guy just a normal Battle Standard and the Armour of Gork to keep him alive.
Black Orc Big Boss; Heavy Armour, Kickin Boots, Shield.
This guy is all about hitting hard, with choosing 2 choppas, in the first round of combat he gets 5 S5 attacks.
The Goblins or ok, I would put 1 Fanatic with the Archers though to suprise the enemy. Make the Archers 39 Strong [put the Shaman with them - see later] and make the unit with Shields just 30 strong as you need the points.
Make the Spider Riders to units of 6, only give them Musicians. They will just give away points if you give them standards and as you dont get a rank bonus more than 6 are just a waste.
Make the Black Orcs 12 Strong. They hit hard enough to not need that rank bonus.
Make the normal boys 22 strong with Shields and Full Command, put the Battle Standard and Big Boss with them.
Make the Big Uns 24 and put the Lord with them, give them 2 Choppas, Full Command and the Spirit Totem for some magic defense.
Add a Night Gob Shaman with the Staff of Sneaky Stealin.
What do you think? It should make the army much harder to break down, gives more punch and some awesome magic defense.
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Morglum
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Post by Morglum on Aug 26, 2008 4:38:43 GMT -5
Well, it looks great although i don't know anything about writing orc lists . But as i said in the first post, i would like to keep this armies cost quite low, so i wouldn't want to be buying a whole extra box of models, only to use 2 or 11 (spider riders and orcs), i was actually planning on buying the army box (warboss on boar, standard, 10 spider riders, 35 orcs, 20 black orcs, 20 gobbos, 3 fanatics and a boar chariot) then buying any blisters (black orc warboss). So would it be possible to drop 6 big 'uns and 5 orc boyz in return for moore black orcs, to keep it within what i get in the box? Sorry about being difficult. And i've finally found out who my main opponents will be, pure shooty dwarves (maybe some slayers, and a lot of mages) and magic heavy ogres.
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 26, 2008 7:36:02 GMT -5
Just make the Spiders 2 units of 5 then, the Black Orcs 1 unit of 10 etc etc. The amount of regular Orcs ive included means you will need 3 boxes of them and almost all of them will be used, so that works out ok.
You dont need more Black Orcs, 1 unit is enough and they only need to be 10-12 models strong.
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Morglum
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Post by Morglum on Aug 26, 2008 8:50:06 GMT -5
Ty for all of the help veq, i'm getting the codex tommorow, so i'll finally be able to see what upgrades do
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Morglum
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Post by Morglum on Aug 27, 2008 9:51:32 GMT -5
Just got the army book and the only thing that can get within a million miles of what i thought is this: . Anyhow, i've devised a fiendish army list, that no one will be able to lose against . Here goes nothing: Grimgor 375 pts (to do with that pesky speed of asuryan (i think) rule, oh, and because i just took out archaon with him, with ease too) Black orc big boss 155pts battle standard heavy armour Boar waaagh banner (angry orc, angry boar, angry banner...?) Night goblin shaman 100 pts staff of sneaky stealing (just to keep those spells away,) 29 night gobbos 196pts 1 fanatic full command spears nets 28 night gobbos 157pts 1 fanatic full command spears 20 gobbo archers 89pts 1 fanatic musician (mage goes in this squad) 33 big 'uns 410pts shields full command spirit totem (banner goes in this squad) 7 spider riders 121pts musician 6 spider riders 108 pts musician 19 black orcs 259pts shields full command banner of butchery (grimgor joins this squad) orc boar chariot 85pts extra crew 2000 pts So there it is, a small section of grimgors WAAAGH!, it will cost me £80 to get all of it, but i feel that it is well worth it. Comments and c&c welcome.
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 27, 2008 10:48:54 GMT -5
Make the Orcs into one unit if you dont want to buy any more models but seriously, units of 15 and 20 just wont work. Make a unit of 34 Big Uns with Shields and the Spirit Totem, put Grimgor with them. The Spirit Totem is the best banner in the game.
Make the Black Orcs 10 models, and put the Battle Standard with them. You REALLY dont need more than 10-12 models with them, its a total waste of points. Perhaps give the Battle Standard the Waagh Banner, Coupled with Black Orcs auto Waaghing when you call it they should charge about 15'', so they can even get the jump on knights. The Black Orcs should have the Banner of Butchery too.
Give the Shaman the Staff of Sneaky Stealin, it is one of the best Arcane Items in the game.
Make the Spiders 2 units of 5. I have already explained why.
ONLY have the Musicain on the Archers, you dont want to throw away 100VP's.
Put Extra Crew on the Chariot.
You may have some points left over too.
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Post by Deraj on Aug 27, 2008 11:23:35 GMT -5
Make the Black Orcs 10 models, and put the Battle Standard with them. You REALLY dont need more than 10-12 models with them, its a total waste of points. Perhaps give the Battle Standard the Waagh Banner, Coupled with Black Orcs outta Waaghing when you call it they should charge about 15'', so they can even get the jump on knights. The Black Orcs should have the Banner of Butchery too. Sorry to disagree here, but Nogg's banner with 20 orcs is probably their absolute best configuration, not to mention, if you lose one model in a unit of 10, you would have to kill 5 from an enemy unit with 3 ranks, just to tie. (assuming both have banners and musicians) Sure, this is all good and well for the weaker units, but black orcs are good for taking down the biggest baddest stuff out there, and you'll get the best use with a block of 20 and noggs banner. Granted it is a good idea to put the warbanner in there too.
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 27, 2008 12:07:53 GMT -5
The Banner of Butchery is a waste on a unit of 20 because only the front rank attack. With a unit of 12 [or 10 with a Character on Boar] you will get [19]21 S5 Attacks.
You have 2 ranks and a standard, giving you static res of 2. The enemy can have at most a static res of 5. Which means you need to kill 3.
Those 21 S5 attacks will get you 5 Kills even against Dwarfs with Hand Weps Heavy Armour and Shields. Against basic infantry you get 11 kills. Why do you need those extra 140 points on 3 extra points of combat res you dont need?
This set up is FAR more effective, it isn't a 350 points point sink and will still smash almost any unit it charges.
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Morglum
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Post by Morglum on Aug 27, 2008 12:08:10 GMT -5
Ok, ive changed it so that its a balance inbetween what both of you say, there are now 15 black orcs (gets the extra rank bonus) and more big 'uns, and there are also 7 spiders riders instead of 5 in each squad. But, i have found a hole in what both of you say, you advise me to put the banner carrier in the black orc squad, and grimgor in the big 'uns squad, but, quoting the Da Immortulz rule "there must be a squad of black orcs in the army..., ...Grimgor may only join this unit, and no other character may do so....." so i've put grimgor with the blorcs, and the standard with the big 'uns.
Other then thank thanks for the help!
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