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Post by El Magnifico on Aug 7, 2008 4:08:49 GMT -5
Hello All!! i started my high elves yesterday and i have just finished coming up with a proper list. the models i have at the moment are the battallion set, an extra unit of silver helms and 2 mages. this is the list i am thinking about: Lord (General) - Archmage - 360pts - Lv 4 Mage - Book Of Hoeth (any double to cast counts as irresistable force) Hero - Mage - 185pts - Lv 2 Mage - (enchanted Item) Skiensilver (SP? - +1 to see who goes first) - (arcane item) Dispel Scroll Hero - Mage - 185pts - Lv 2 Mage - (enchanted Item) fire ring (bound Lv 3, casts fury of Khaine) - (arcane Item) Silver Wand (knows one more spell than usual) - Barded Elven Steed Hero - Noble - 133pts - Reaver Bow (3 Str 5 shots, longbow, does NOT count as multi-shotting) - Great Weapon Core - 26 Spearmen - 284pts - Full Command - (magic banner) Banner of Elrillyion (unit is Magic Resistance 2) Core - 10 Archers - 110ptsCore - 10 Archers - 110ptsSpecial - 8 Silver Helms - 208pts - Full Command Special - 8 Silver Helms - 208pts - Full Command Rare - Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100ptsRare - Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100ptsTotal - 1999pts Power Dice - 10 Dispel Dice - 6 plus one scroll The Archmage sits in the spearmen unit with a cosy MR2 to stop any magic taking him down and a potential 15 str 3 ASF attacks to ward off any light infantry assaulting them. the noble will join an archer unit, as will a mage. the mounted mage will join a unit of silver helms. My Thoughts: 1) i dont have the book on me but i think the Noble is under-pointed. i will drop the great weapon for a halberd or something if that is the case. 2) i would have preffered having the book of hoeth on the mounted mage but i am a WYSIWYG nut and one of the other mages has a book in his hand  3) i dont like the fact that i dont have any fast moving flanking units (fast cavalry/skirmishers). i have a game against orks and goblins with this army on friday and i'll see how much of a problem it is (i cant afford to get much more for the army....) 4) if an opponent manages to halt my magic, i dont have that much to fall back on (though i do have a powerfull magic phase). 5) eventually i think i will swap out the archmage for a prince and try to squeeze some dragon princes into the list as well. anyway - what do you think  |
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 7, 2008 7:23:47 GMT -5
I dont think your magic phase is powerful enough, I think the Book is onlyworth taking if you are going mage light with just the Archmage so that you actually get some spells off.
Take the Jewel of Duskon your Skiensilver mage for +1 Power.
I think your Archmage is better served with the Vortex Shard and a Power Stone. The Vortex Shard can win you the game against Vamp Counts. Or perhaps the Annulian Crystal, 2 Power Stones and a Scroll.
Silver Helms are rubbish and 8 man units are a bad size, I'd convert them into 2 units of Dragon princes 5-6 Strong. Id also put the Banner of Sorcery on one of these units taking you upto 13 [on average] Power Dice [with the Jewel of Dusk]. 2 5 man units with Musician and Standard + the banner of Sorcery is the same cost as those 2 units and far better. Just painting their armour like scales makes a nice unit of princes.
That set up gives you;
13/Power + 4 Extra One Use Dice [if you go with the second Archmage Option] + 1 Bound.
7 Dispel with -1 Enemy Power, +1 to Dispel and 1 Scroll.
I think that set up will give you enough hitting power and magic offense/defense for a competative list and it means you dont have to buy anymore models either.
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Post by El Magnifico on Aug 7, 2008 8:02:11 GMT -5
unfortunately, i suck at major conversion work and you get silver helms in the battallion box.
i've seen them used to great effect so i'll keep them for now, though i will add some dragon princes AS WELL when i can afford them.
i'll consider your other points though, i'm buying the extra models tonight so i will see if i can come up with a cheap way of imrpoving things....
EDIT:
Here's a quick re-think on the list:
Lord - Archmage - 360pts
- Book of hoeth
(i want to try it out, i will probably swap it for the vortex shard if i am not 100% impressed with it)
Hero - Mage - 175pts
- Skeinsilver
- Jewel of Duskon
(i had actually re-written the list with the jewel in it before you suggested it ;D )
Hero - Mage - 197pts
- Ring of Fury
- Silver Wand
- Elven Steed
Hero - Noble - 125pts
- Reaver Bow
i dont like dropping his great weapon, but i cant really see what to drop elsewhere to keep it..... perhaps a champion somewhere
Core - 20 Spearmen - 230pts
- Banner of Arcane Protection
Core - 10 archers - 110pts
Special - 8 silver helms - 224pts
- Full Command
- Shields
Special - 8 silver helms - 224pts
- Full Command
- Shields
Special - 5 Dragon Princes - 255pts
- Full Command
- Banner of sorcery
Rare - Repeater Bolt Thrower
Total (if my memory is correct) - 2000pts bang on.
Power dice - 11+d3
Dispel dice - 6
cost for new models - £42 (dragon princes and another mage)
the previous list would have cost the same
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 7, 2008 11:10:29 GMT -5
Silver Helms really arent worth it compared to Dragon Princes, all youneed to do is paint them green. You may have seen them used well, but any unit can be used well, they aren't terrible, they just arent worth it when compared to Dragon Princes.
Still, if you do decide to stick with them, 8 is a terrible number. Make the units 6 Strong at most.
Your magic defense is still lacking a bit too. Not much you can do with your mage set up though.
Good luck with the army!.
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Post by El Magnifico on Aug 12, 2008 10:29:08 GMT -5
well, i tested the army yesterday and i must admit i wasnt impressed with some of it.
the book of hoeth seems to be a waste of good points to me, i was casting 2+ spells a turn from that mage and got ONE irresistable force from a double 3.
in future i will take the vortex shard over the book (though i did say i wanted to try it).
though i am having other ideas for an army style.....
i like the sound of a lord on a star dragon with the armour of caledor, talisman of ...... (4 inv and re-roll armour) and a weapon of some kind (i was thinking a halberd for a constant str 5).
or a lord on star dragon with the bow of the seafarer and the armour of caledor (and again, a halberd for a constant str 5)
backed up by a dragon mage and a foot mage who will be toting dispel scrolls.
core i'm thinking standard archers (maybe one unit of spears)
a couple+ units of dragon princes
either some sword masters or white lions (i dont like pheonix guard)
backed up by 2 bolt throwers.
i know i'm most likely not going to get most of that in 2000pts, but it is what i'm looking at.
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 12, 2008 11:43:15 GMT -5
Well you cant have 2 Dragons and a foot mage in the list, that would be 5 Hero Choices.
The Dragon Lord set up is a good one, especially if you take the Talisman of Loec too.
The Double Dragon List backed with some Archers and Bolt Throwers is a killer. Especially when you take Dragon Princes as support, remember to give those Princes some good magical defense banners though.
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Post by El Magnifico on Aug 13, 2008 3:24:50 GMT -5
Well you cant have 2 Dragons and a foot mage in the list, that would be 5 Hero Choices. The Dragon Lord set up is a good one, especially if you take the Talisman of Loec too. The Double Dragon List backed with some Archers and Bolt Throwers is a killer. Especially when you take Dragon Princes as support, remember to give those Princes some good magical defense banners though. a lord on a dragon is 1 x lord and 1xhero (for the dragon) a dragon mage is 2 x hero (an extra one for the dragon) that leaves me 1 x hero EDIT: apologies, i'm being a moron. i was thinking that i could have a lord AND 4 heros. ignore my comment above  but pointing it up in my head there are about 1000pts+in characters - that, as a mainly 40k player at the moment scares me  i was planning on at LEAST 2 bolt throwers, i might even try to drag it to 4, a couple of minimum units of dragon princes to counter charge/lend support and then simply archers. i'll come up with a few lists.... a worry i have is people sniping the mage off the dragon, is it worth paying 350+pts for a sun dragon and not using the mage to cast magic - i'm thinking of giving him the armor of caledor or something (and a dispel scroll most likely) to give him at least some protection from archer fire..... EDIT: this is my first thoughts on a list: Lord - Prince - 601pts - Halberd - Armour of Caledor - Talisman of.... Loec  (4+ ward and re-roll armour) - enchanted item thingy that gives him magic attacks - star dragon mount i went for a standard halberd becuase it gives him a static strength of 5 which isnt anything to scoff at and it allows him to take some of the best proctective gear the high elves can have.Hero - Dragon Mage - 400pts - some kind of magic armour..... - dispel scroll - sun dragon mount Core - 10 archers - 120ptsCore - 10 archers - 120ptsCore - 10 archers - 120ptsSpecial - 6 Dragon Princes - 286pts - Full Command - magic banner of immune to magic (i think it is within their points limit) Rare - 2 x bolt thrower - 200ptsRare - 1 x bolt thrower - 100ptstotal - 1947 if my memory serves... not sure what to do with the extra 50pts a very small high elf army, with little/no magic defence (3 dice and a scroll - YAY ;D) but kicks out some serious hurt in the combat and shooting phases. it should also happily out-manoever 99% of opponents with 2 flying terror causers. the dragon princes will probably hang back to protect the war machines from skirmishers etc. another setup i considered for the lord is: bow of the seafarer dragon armour the helm that gives you a ward save and re-roll armour a halberd this would allow me to give the armour of caledor to the mage but would leave the prince a bit more vulnerable and to be honest, he is the one i want kept alive so i am currently thinking of the first set up. not sure if i should keep the 4 bolt throwers, or drop them to 2. the extra 200pts would certainly come in handy for a small unit of more dragon princes or swapping them out for a couple of units of phoenix guard to protect the war machines, 4+ wards and fear causing should scare off opposing skirmishers........ anyway, what are your thoughts |
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Post by Pettsy on Aug 13, 2008 7:29:02 GMT -5
You should expect the Dragon Mage to die, they always do. However two dragons gives your opponent two big threats to target. If he focuses on the Prince that should leave the Dragon Mage free to rain magical death down on his units, if he focuses on the Dragon Mage your Prince will rip through his troops. On the question of what to equip the Dragon Mage with I usually go with level 2, silverwand and ring of fury. That set-up can throw out a scary amount of damage. Despite being on a dragon the Dragon Mage should NOT be in combat (unless it's a real small unit) as it allows him to be targetted freely. At range there is a good chance of shots hitting the dragon instead. The talisman you are thinking for your Prince are the Vambraces of Defence, best item we have  . Have you though about taking a great weapon instead of the halberd? Mounted your still hitting at s5, but in the event of the mount getting killed it always the Prince to fight at s6. Personally I prefer to take Lothern Seaguard over Archers. For 10pts more you gain a better save and you're much better in combat. The Dragon Princes can't take that banner i'm afraid. They can however take the Magic Resistance 2 banner. |
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Post by El Magnifico on Aug 13, 2008 8:04:36 GMT -5
i like the idea of the great weapon, but i will have to fiddle points to fit it in. same for sea guard. i just feel dirty using a character without a save (the dragon mage) even if he is harder to hit...... i will have a look at what equipment i will shuffle around (cant remember the cost of that MR2 banner - 25pts i'm guessing) though for a giggle i might try and proxy an army of 8 repeater bolt throwers, an archmage with the vortex shard and a dispel scroll and then 3 mages with 2 dispel scrolls each backed up by ARCHERS  - i wonder if that would actually work..... ;D edit: a couple of gimmick lists: Magic: Lord - Archmage - 371pts - vortex shard - dispel scroll - lv 4 mage - barded elven steed Hero - mage - 185pts - lv 2 mage - ring of fury - silver wand hero - mage - 175pts - lv 2 mage - arcane item - take an opposing power dice to add to my dispel pile hero - mage - 175pts - lv 2 mage - 2 dispel scrolls Core - 10 archers - 120pts Core - 10 archers - 120pts Core - 10 archers - 120pts special - 6 dragon princes - 255pts - full command - banner of arcane protection rare - repeater bolt thrower - 100pts rare - repeater bolt thrower - 100pts rare - repeater bolt thrower - 100pts rare - repeater bolt thrower - 100pts total - 1921pts Power Dice - 13 and the ring of fury Dispel Dice - 7 plus one from the item, plus 3 scrolls not sure where to stick the 79pts remaining, more dragon princes possibly, or upgrade the archers to sea guard (i just dont like not being in range from turn 1, longbows let me do that). Gimmick 2 - the the bolt thrower list Lord - prince - 596pts Hero - dragon mage - 360pts Core - 10 archers - 120pts Core - 10 archers - 120pts Rare - 2 x repeater bolt thrower - 200pts Rare - 2 x repeater bolt thrower - 200pts Rare - 2 x repeater bolt thrower - 200pts Rare - 2 x repeater bolt thrower - 200pts total - 1996pts power dice - 3 dispel dice - 3 8 bolt throwers and 2 dragons should put the fear of death into any opponent in fact, i like those 2 lists, particularly the bolt thrower one..... ;D |
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 13, 2008 8:10:36 GMT -5
The Dragon Mage cant take magic armour Im affraid. I would rather have another unit of Princes than those extra shooty units.
How about this;
Prince;
Star Dragon,
Armour of Caledor,
Vambraces of Defense,
Halberd [just becase its cheaper],
Talisman of Loec.
Dragon Mage;
Extra Level,
Guardian Pheonix,
Dispel Scroll.
[Never charge the front of a unit with this guy, he can win with rear charges however]
10 Sea Guard;
Shields + Musician.
10 Sea Guard;
Shields + Musician.
Bolt Thrower;
Bolt Thrower;
6 Dragon Princes;
Banner, Musician,
Standard of Arcane Protection.
6 Dragon Princes;
Banner, Musician, Champion with -
Amulet of Fire.
The Sea Guard can go into two ranks and reliably fight off threats such as Light Cav and units of flyers/skirmishers, especially if on a hill. That lets them defend the Bolt Throwers pretty well.
The Dragon Princes now both have magic resistance and extra hitting power and can beat units on their own. The Mage now has some defense and provides a little extra magical defense too.
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Post by El Magnifico on Aug 13, 2008 8:35:28 GMT -5
i like it, but i am not sold on taking sea guard. i like to be shooting from the word go and with 24" range, i dont think the sea guard will be (or at the very least they will be at long range and moving for -2 to hit).
i do think that sea guard are better, but normal archers suit my style a little more.
and i thought that mages could take armour, they just couldnt cast anything if they did. the idea was to make the mage reletively nails and go off charging things. i dont think that he is going to get many spells of on his own, even with the extra power dice he gets.
i think i'm too in love with the bolt thrower model (and the price of it) to take them away for a unit of dragon princes. 4 bolt throwers seems overkill (though check out the list above ;D) but i'd rather have too much shooty than not enough and i think the dragons should be able to take on even heavy cavalry on their own (assuming flank/rear charges for guys like chosen/grail knights)
i am experimenting with different lists though.....
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(4+ ward and re-roll armour)
. Have you though about taking a great weapon instead of the halberd? Mounted your still hitting at s5, but in the event of the mount getting killed it always the Prince to fight at s6.
- i wonder if that would actually work..... ;D