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Post by Arguleon Veq on Jul 30, 2008 8:21:22 GMT -5
Well, the worst part of the new 40K edition has popped its ugly head into Fantasy. The next set of GT's now called Throne of Skulls uses a kill point system in 1 of the 3 scenarios. The other 2 are objective based. I think its rediculous and I hope it isn't a sign of things to come for Fantasy. Rules Pack; warhammerworld.typepad.com/wa..._Warhammer.pdf |
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Post by Red dog on Jul 30, 2008 9:41:34 GMT -5
Veq... I just read the rulepack... Thats just SAD... Objectives work in 40k because most of the time the army needs to complete some sort of task. In fantasy it is an army that battles the other and not much else, hence VPs for standards, killed generals and etc... Yeah this is going to be bad... It enhances the further powercreep of the armies. Let us look at changes... ***Rule pack doesn't clarify the "contesting of objectives" aka 2 or more units near it. Is it by Unit Strength or by what?*** - We are back to 2k standard (nerfing core  ). - Now all the unkillable lords that could simply be avoided before worth good portion of points (Star Dragon Lord is 4 points...) and all the suicidal lords that are more then 100 points (like what 90% of them?) but are not ubber will give just as much as ubber lords but with less hustle.. - Taking standards, BSBs and killing generals now means nothing... - Table quarters only significant in ONE of the 3 missions... - There is no way to get "half points" for anything. - There is only a Win and a Draw and a Loss(conceding is dumb lol, why not just loose and get 1 point Vs zero? haha). No minor/major or w/e. Operantly GW stuff is now hired before they could learn basic math... More complex numbers then 3 or 1 scares them... - Getting the same points for a unit of skinks and the unit of Dwarven Logbeareds with Full command and magic banners is absurd. They are nerfing fleeing basically... Gee "the noob armies" are having trouble with smashing armies that don't stand still? ... - MSU armies now can take butt laod of banners and get away with it as it conferrs no extra bonus... Yeah all and all... I think we should start assembling the TO's flagelant warband and visit GW HQ some time soon... ***Dibs on the Axe, tattoos/paint on the face and old ragged cloak...*** P.S. It looks like they are nerfing conversions and scratch building too... hmm what an odd accurance... ***eye twitching and fist cluntching...*** Walk Tall everyone!!!!!  |
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Jul 30, 2008 9:50:49 GMT -5
It makes Elite core armies such as Daemons, and VC who can keep their units alive, almost unbeatable and horde armies rubbish.
2K has always been the UK standard though.
I think it was meant to stop power armies and things like Gunlines but all it has done is make the real power armies even harder to beat.
Lets hope it fails and so is only a 1 off.
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Post by Red dog on Jul 30, 2008 10:17:33 GMT -5
Problem is Veq, if it does fails, GW will do what it always does... it will go sit in a dark corner and repeat 20 thousand times "it didn't fail, it was a success" and then do exactly the same thing again... Anyways the only positive aspect of this is that Dwarven "Battle Castle" is now actually a lot more powerful. Not only they are hard as hell to destroy, now they don't even give a lots of points out. I am actually happy for that turn as I like playing dwarfs that actually move and think. Other then that, the following armies oh the top of my head (there is probably more hehe ^_^) got really boosted -> - VC Grave Guard bunker army. The unit that is almost impossible to kill only gives out 4 or 5 points and that if it was killed to the man... - TKs Casket Chariot charade. A unit of 3-5 chariots which is core now gives out only 1 point as they are core... - Bret's flying circus got boosted AGAIN. Pegasus knights as core that only give 1 point out... yeah good job... Also the peasant vow (the most awesome infantry rule that bertonians had!) is just NULL now... which makes the peasant armies to die off even faster... - Daemon nurgle bunker or Khorne/Slaneesh-Tzeench MSU circus are now even worth as they HUGE unit of plague burrieres with all the toys and the hero gives 2 kill points(Meanwhile.. Unit of 3 terradons is 2 kill points too )... And MSU now can take banners for better effect... - HE with twin 10 prince hammers with BSB that gives only 3 points... and 2 dragons... just got some great bonuses... P.S. This makes confuses me on what DA hell am I suppose to do now... With power armies getting boosted, i am not sure If my Idiot can stand up... and with skinks handing out Kill points like there is no tomorrow my MSU is turning to ash... Also I don't think hordes got hit at all. Scaven/Orc lines are mostly core so at worst it will give 2-3 points for fleeing support units or w/e. Meanwhile big blocks of orcs/empire/scaven are now even better because they are virtually invulnerable to ranged fire and are NOT easy to break. Yeah we'll see where all of this is going... Walk Tall everyone!!!!! |
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Post by Pettsy on Jul 30, 2008 10:31:54 GMT -5
Could someone give me some basic information on what Kill Points actually are? I've never heard of them before.
~Pettsy~
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Post by grunt90 on Jul 30, 2008 11:11:03 GMT -5
yeah whats this whole package about?
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Jul 30, 2008 11:33:48 GMT -5
Its all in that rule pack but essentially rather than Victory Points, all you get is; [You have to fully wipe out each of these]
1 KP [Kill Point] for Core,
2 KP for Special
3 for Rare
3 for Lords
2 for Heros
Anything under 100 Points is only ever 1 KP
So your 60 point easy to kill gobbo unit, is worth as many victory points as the enemies impossible to kill 400 point plague bearer unit. Your 100 point Bolt Thrower or War Machine that can explode onits own, yep thats worth 3 KP even though that 500 point grave guard unit is only worth 2.
Winner is the person with the most Kill Points. I dont understand how you can justify a fair game when some armies may only be about 7 KPs when another is 15+, how is a game balanced when both sides dont even amount to the same amount of points you can get?
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Post by grunt90 on Jul 30, 2008 13:15:04 GMT -5
but thats only in the Grand tournaments righT? not like a rules update?
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Jul 30, 2008 20:28:03 GMT -5
Yep just the GT.
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Post by Kaffl on Aug 13, 2008 20:54:58 GMT -5
Guess who's glad he's not a GT player?
The link you gave is not awesome by the way, I can't DL it.
Those Kill Points are incredibly frustrating. Welfs are going to be next to impossible to beat (mine are at any rate), and armies like Orcs&Gobbos and Skaven will get the pwn.
Asrai Welfs in particular are gonna rock the tourney since they use an overload of Core choices and not much else. My Asrai have 8 Core choices, 1 special and 1 rare. My Rare choice (Waywatchers) and my Lord (who is with them) are near impossible to kill, because you can't really shoot them, and they have the Moonstone of Hidden Ways so you can't actually charge them either. I'd give away probably 3 or 4 KP in a game if my previous games are any indication...
That sucks.
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 13, 2008 21:51:16 GMT -5
Hordes and Asrai Wood Elves really wont have it easy. Hordes give a lot of kill points away with their throw away sacrificial units and Asrai Elves will give a lot with their small easy to kill core choices.
Armies that will do great are ones with rock hard expensive core choices like Daemons. Vampire Counts will do great due to raising so long as you dont rasie new units.
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