rcr
Militia
Posts: 8
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Hi
Jul 19, 2008 23:02:21 GMT -5
Post by rcr on Jul 19, 2008 23:02:21 GMT -5
Always strike first!??!!? i mean come'on!!!!!!
* i claimed first troll post!*
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Hi
Jul 20, 2008 6:41:44 GMT -5
Post by maidenante on Jul 20, 2008 6:41:44 GMT -5
Dude... ASF has already been discussed over and over and over again. And the conclusion is always the same. The High Elves aren't "overpowered" as they can be beaten anyway. Poor armour, strength and toughness. It's all about not getting outmanouevred by the Elves. The Daemons of Chaos however have serious powerbuilds, but they can be beaten too. (However, always expect them to get their saves...).
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SkullzD
Militia
I'm waiting.
Posts: 8
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Hi
Jul 20, 2008 13:16:40 GMT -5
Post by SkullzD on Jul 20, 2008 13:16:40 GMT -5
Dude..
Being the First troller isn't something to try to achieve and be happy about. It's just dumb and rude.
ASF can be annoying, yes, but as my friend Ante have already said. It CAN be countered.
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Jul 20, 2008 13:36:34 GMT -5
Post by Pettsy on Jul 20, 2008 13:36:34 GMT -5
There is nothing overpowered about Always Strikes First. So we strike first woopie doo. -Dwarves, Chaos, Orcs, Ogres, Beasts our attacks dont do diddly. -W.Elves, Dwarves, Empire, D.Elves can shoot us apart before we get to combat.
One on One yes opposing units WILL struggle. The trick to beating the High Elves now is to get multiple charges off on us so you can beat us through Combat Resolution.
We are fast, we have good shooting and magic. But we are still as fragile as before.
~Pettsy~
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Hi
Jul 20, 2008 14:35:23 GMT -5
Post by Arguleon Veq on Jul 20, 2008 14:35:23 GMT -5
A huge gripe about ASF is that it makes it easy to be lazy for HE players, it takes a lot of skill away and is frustrating for opponents who try and set up their charges to have it just not matter.
It is a very powerful rule and I believe its a bit of a kop out. It doesn't make High Elves invincible but it does make things very hard for certain armies and builds.
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Jul 25, 2008 21:30:55 GMT -5
Post by chiliedog on Jul 25, 2008 21:30:55 GMT -5
I have had two cold one chariots charge a unit of sword masters (either 10 or 15 strong) and have had the sword masters completely decimate me killing a chariot and making the other run away because they struck first...
Its ok though my heralds of nurgle will make many high elf players very angry.
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Jul 25, 2008 21:55:00 GMT -5
Post by Pettsy on Jul 25, 2008 21:55:00 GMT -5
Remember that you get your impact hits before ASF. So hopefully you should kill a decent number before they get to hit you back.
~Pettsy~
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Jul 26, 2008 8:15:24 GMT -5
Post by Arguleon Veq on Jul 26, 2008 8:15:24 GMT -5
Yes, Chariots are great against High Elves. The Herald of Nurgle causes them no end of pain though, mine ran rough shod over High Elves last week.
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Jul 26, 2008 12:06:03 GMT -5
Post by Pettsy on Jul 26, 2008 12:06:03 GMT -5
Chariots are infinitely annoying to combat with High Elves. We only have 2 decent options for removing chariots easily. The Star Lance and the Star Dragon. And lets face it the dragon isn't exactly cheap.
You can also use Eagle Claws to damage chariots but me personally I'd rather use them to mow down advancing infantry or cavalry.
~Pettsy~
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Hi
Jul 26, 2008 16:46:20 GMT -5
Post by Deraj on Jul 26, 2008 16:46:20 GMT -5
ASF by itself isn't that bad, ASF with high LD is what really gets me though... and ASF with great weapons gets annoying.
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Hi
Aug 14, 2008 17:36:45 GMT -5
Post by Kaffl on Aug 14, 2008 17:36:45 GMT -5
ASF is overhyped. As are Helfs. I don't understand everyone's gripes because I've never once had any real difficulty against a Helf player save for a single game, which came down strictly to luck. High Elfs just aren't all that great, and there's no reason to give them grief because they like to strike before you. They're still pansy Elfs, and they die like any other Elf in the game. Dragons? Pshaw. Once you pop the rider off of the dragon it's not nearly as menacing (usually because the rider was a mage). Star Dragons are frightening, yes, but they're how many points and how many slots? For something that can be cannon'd down on the first turn by some armies.
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Hi
Aug 15, 2008 7:13:02 GMT -5
Post by Pettsy on Aug 15, 2008 7:13:02 GMT -5
ASF is overhyped. As are Helfs. I have been saying this since the book was updated. But no, once a mob of people get it into their heads that HElves are overpowered they refuse to see what is clearly not broken. Then they spread it until everyone has this idea that they are broken and keep bleating it like a herd of sheep. I don't understand everyone's gripes because I've never once had any real difficulty against a Helf player save for a single game, which came down strictly to luck. High Elfs just aren't all that great, and there's no reason to give them grief because they like to strike before you. They're still pansy Elfs, and they die like any other Elf in the game. Dragons? Pshaw. Once you pop the rider off of the dragon it's not nearly as menacing (usually because the rider was a mage). Star Dragons are frightening, yes, but they're how many points and how many slots? For something that can be cannon'd down on the first turn by some armies. People moan because they don't like having to use their brain and realise that you can not combat High Elves like you would another army. A single unit charging a unit of HElves will more often than not just bounce off. Combo-charges are the key to beating them. You can't rely on killing them to win, you have to beat them through combat resolution. Or just shoot them until they run away ;D ~Pettsy~
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Aug 15, 2008 17:00:49 GMT -5
Post by Deraj on Aug 15, 2008 17:00:49 GMT -5
I wouldn't say ASF is overhyped. every army has a couple of things that "make" it. Brettonians get their 2+ armor save and easily made pure mounted armies, Wood elves get powerful shooting, and What is it for Helfs? ASF. Look at their stats. If they were as are without ASF, no one would play them. Against some armies, sure, they are overpowered. Seriously though, what army doesn't have enemies which seem overpowered to them? It's all a matter of perspective.
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Hi
Aug 15, 2008 21:17:04 GMT -5
Post by Kaffl on Aug 15, 2008 21:17:04 GMT -5
I wouldn't say ASF is overhyped. every army has a couple of things that "make" it. Brettonians get their 2+ armor save and easily made pure mounted armies, Wood elves get powerful shooting, and What is it for Helfs? ASF. Look at their stats. If they were as are without ASF, no one would play them. Against some armies, sure, they are overpowered. Seriously though, what army doesn't have enemies which seem overpowered to them? It's all a matter of perspective. It's the same thing with a lot of armies, like Vampire Counts getting units back, or Empire being able to countercharge with detachments, or Tomb Kings shooting one catapult multiple times per turn. Most of the gripes come from people who don't play to their own advantage and their opponent's disadvantages (trust me, every army has a disadvantage). They see special rules that they don't have and cry "Cheese!". Frankly I'm sick of it. If you can only see an entire army for the trait that makes them playable and none of their disadvantages (or fail to see your own advantages and disadvantages) then don't go complaining and showing just how ignorant you are. People don't want to hear it, and all you do is sound like a sore loser because you got beaten up by Helfs. I do, however, dislike the ASF to an extent. I could see putting it on a large amount of the High Elf units, the special choices in particular, but to put it on every unit makes for very lazy gamers who don't think ahead. "Oh, I shouldn't have pursued that unit, I'm gonna get flank charged. Ah well, no biggie, I get to hit him first anyway." This is no way to play.
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