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Post by Rezzy on Aug 26, 2009 11:28:49 GMT -5
Ouch, I can imagine. Not having the army book with me at work, can you mount him in a chariot? Sounds like it would be easier to model.
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Post by Deraj on Aug 26, 2009 11:55:28 GMT -5
Yes you can. I don't remember the cost of the juggernaut, but I do remember the chariot cost, and... not posting the point cost, but it's 3x the firestorm blade (I think that's legal, since you need the army book to know the cost of the firestorm blade.) Also.... I hate the demon armybook. Everything is like... 15 points, 25 points, 50 points, 100 points. Seriously....
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 26, 2009 12:18:03 GMT -5
The Chariot is really nice and cheap. The Jugger is best though because it allows you to keep him nice and safe in a unit and gives the unit more models for rank bonus [As it takes up the space of 4 models]. It also combines to give him a 0+ Save.
He would look amazing in a Chariot though. He would just be the target of a lot of fire. Plus he would be losing the extra magic res he can give a unit.
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Post by Rezzy on Aug 30, 2009 4:52:36 GMT -5
Er, the Jugger is the same cost as Obsidian Armour, and the Chariot is three times as expensive! Well I spoke to my friend last night about his force composition. It will look something like this:
Vampire Lord (geared up as a magic user) - Approx 210pts 2/3 Vampire Heroes (probably combat orientated) Necromancer on Corpse Cart Unit of 25 Grave Guard 3 Units of 25 Crypt Ghouls 1 Unit of 25 Skeletons 5 Blood Knights Assorted minor gribblies. [/hr] It sounds like I am going to have a pretty hard time. He said that I might be better off using extra Bloodletters instead of Skulltaker, but I am dubious with all those Vampire Heroes running around! With his magic I think I am going to have a hard time outmanouvering him...so if anyone has any ideas for tactics I'm all ears. Oh he also said that none of his chars will be regenerating, and as far as he could see flaming attacks do no extra damage against undead or Vampires. So will my FireStorm blades provide any benefit other than the strength bonus? We discussed upping the points limit to 2250 or 2500, so I may be adding to this list, probably in the form of a Tzeench Herald on a disk. - Ok that's done. The only thing I stil want to add to this list is a Daemon Prince (in the form of a Varghar from Confrontation), but I cannot recall the conditions I need to meet for a second Lord. If/when I add him he will look like this: "Gorethirst", Daemon Prince of Khorne - 410pts Unnatural Swiftness Axe of Khorne Immortal Fury
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Aug 30, 2009 9:13:54 GMT -5
I would drop all the Bloodletter units to 18. 3x6 is better than 4x5. The unit that will have the Herald on Jugger in only needs to be 14 strong as he takes up 4 spaces.
This gives you 120 points to play with.
With which you can put that Herald of Tzeentch on a Chariot rather than a Disk. It still flys, but it also breaks enemy ranks when charging in the flank or rear to help support your combat blocks and it does impact hits. Its a steal for an extra 40 points.
Then a Jugger for Skulltaker to let him kill whatever he wants.
Firestrom blade will just be there for the extra strength, but that is very valuable.
Bloodthirster should just slam into his Blood Knights.
Have Karanaks target be one of his Thralls. Your hounds will do fine against a unit of his Infantry so long as its not Grave Guard, so have the target be a Thrall in one of his Ghoul Blocks.
Skulltaker should be aiming to take out his Lord. Anything can kill the Necromancer really.
I dont think you can cast Danse on your units because the spell specifically states on any 'Undead' unit.
That Tzeentch Herald will struggle to get any spells off anyway, but at least he gives you an extra dispel dice and with a Chariot as opposed to a disk [which is easily done by just putting two screamer models in front of his disk], it will really help to support your combat blocks with rear charges etc.
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Post by Rezzy on Sept 2, 2009 14:59:10 GMT -5
Ah yes will do, thanks. He's going with the other Juggers. Both ideas, but I just can't model either in the forseeable future. I'll bear these in mind though. d**n shame! Still, I doubt I would get any spells off anyway like you say so it's not too much of a loss. I'm just trying to find the best way to give my force a slight edge/defense in the magic phase.
In other news, I and my opponent did a few 'test runs' last weekend, testing units 1v1 (without spells being cast, so he was at a disadvantage really). 20 Bloodletters vs 20 Grave Guard was a narrow win for the 'letters, though I made some great rolls. The combats are nice and quick as whoever looses then has to take an instability test or similar and that generally doubles the casualty rate! The two Bloodcrushers, Bloodreaper and Herald made mincemeat out of 25 Graveguard, but then they were worth about 100pts more. I lost one of the Bloodcrushers. The Bloodthirster slaughtered his Lord (he used a book to reduce by WS to 1, but all my attacks still hit!). The second time I allowed him to tailor his Lord and it returned the favour quite easily, which was nasty. Overall I got the feeling my units were definitely in another league above his, though saying that I didn't get to fight his Bloodknights... Once his magic is thrown into the mix I believe I will have a much harder time. It will be like wading through treacle, to reach a nasty Vampire Count. I've just got two more boxes of 'letters through the post, but I ordered Karanak and they sent me hounds instead, so I've emailed them about that.
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Post by Arguleon Veq on Sept 2, 2009 15:15:53 GMT -5
With that Herald[Tzeentch] being mainly for magic defense, you may be better off getting Spellbreaker on him. Then maybe Flames as his offensive output, shooting up small enemy units like Wraiths/Knights.
The Blue Scribes are AWESOME against Vamps and I would even be tempted to take those and the Tzeentch Herald with Master of Sorc rather than the Skulltaker. Perhaps try it for a game?
The plus with them is that you will no doubt be buying a box of 5 Horrors for that Herald? so you will have the models you need for them, the Disks for both that Herald and the Scribes can easily be made from any piece of plastic. So £12 [plus some converting] for 2 characters.
What did he use that took out your Thirster? All I can come up with is Vamp Lord with some Bloodline Powers and the Frostblade and even then that only gives a 50% chance and doesnt even work if you have Obsid armour. Even the insane Dreadlance, Red Fury combo still cant beat the Thirster even if it somehow gets the charge.
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Post by Rezzy on Sept 3, 2009 5:05:56 GMT -5
With that Herald[Tzeentch] being mainly for magic defense, you may be better off getting Spellbreaker on him. Then maybe Flames as his offensive output, shooting up small enemy units like Wraiths/Knights. Yeah I'm inclined to agree. Flames is a shooting attack as opposed to a spell too, right? Hmm I hadn't considered that. I'll take a look at their rules later. Yeah that really isn't as bad as a Herald on a Chariot thankfully. I can't recall his exact setup, I will have to get him to post it here. I let him tailor against me, so he knew I had Obsidian Armour. I think he just went for a great weapon or heavy lance or something which gave him +2 to strength. He had a 2+ save and was on an Abyssal Terror too, though he forgot to do that attacks for that (they weren't particularly necessary tbh!). I think he may have cast a spell on himself like 'Bear Strength' or something too.
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